tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post4539635706460051484..comments2024-03-21T19:59:49.407-04:00Comments on KoopaTV: Yosuke Matsuda's Law of Third TitlesLudwig Von Koopahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-83139961991740500952015-07-25T16:32:46.757-04:002015-07-25T16:32:46.757-04:00Hey, Origins wasn't even made by Rocksteady, s...Hey, Origins wasn't even made by Rocksteady, so they don't have exclusive claim to Arkham. :o<br />......'kay I understand I don't have a coherent argument anymore. (And haven't for several comments now.)<br />Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-49989710341241486292015-07-25T15:51:28.025-04:002015-07-25T15:51:28.025-04:00No... because Rocksteady isn't the only compan...No... because Rocksteady isn't the only company that makes Batman games. There's a ton of Batman games that aren't Arkham games, or even close to them.<br /><br />"Arkham" is a city in the works of H.P. Lovecraft, but not in these games. Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are both locations in GOTHAM City. "Arkham City" is an area created after the mayor decided to expand the asylum into a blockaded-off section of the city. There is no "Arkham City" outside of that game. It's the central focus of the game, both in terms of location and story.Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-14076542069962584162015-07-25T15:08:29.290-04:002015-07-25T15:08:29.290-04:00I dunno, the whole "Batman" thing is a p...I dunno, the whole "Batman" thing is a pretty good indicator they go together.<br />Maybe all I want is more than one word as the sub-title.<br /><br />(Hey, that asylum is IN a city. And Arkham itself IS a city. So "Arkham City" is just stupid. That's all I'm saying.)<br />Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-66591022830255273202015-07-25T08:53:57.985-04:002015-07-25T08:53:57.985-04:00But if we go back to expecting the titles to indic...But if we go back to expecting the titles to indicate chronological order, we're back to Ace Attorney's titles being just as illogical. :P<br /><br />Arkham Asylum is the name of the first game's setting. The entire game revolves around Arkham Asylum--which is also a recognizable location from the universe that would give Batman fans an idea of what the game is about. Arkham City, which came second, is the name of the second game's setting.<br /><br />Arkham Origins, as you already mentioned, refers to its status as a prequel. Arkham Knight is a character, so it breaks the pattern, but they couldn't keep naming *places* Arkham _____. And it's better from a series perspective to keep "Arkham" in the title once it became known as the Arkham series. That's something we were taught--if we're writing a series of books, it's a huge advantage to structure their titles similarly, so the reader can see at a glance that they go together.<br /><br />They aren't interchangeable, because if you swapped their names, they'd no longer make sense. How could you call the first game Arkham City when it takes place in a small asylum rather than a city, or Arkham Knight when there IS no Arkham Knight in the game? How could you call Arkham City Arkham Asylum when the asylum is only a minor part of its story? How could you call Arkham Knight either of those things when it doesn't take place in the asylum OR Arkham city?Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-48090393351118886742015-07-24T23:02:58.270-04:002015-07-24T23:02:58.270-04:00Maybe "logical" is the wrong word... ...Maybe "logical" is the wrong word... 'cause you brought it up first not me.<br /><br />Well, "Origins" is the one that's chronologically first, but the rest are just a pretty generic noun that are interchangeable.Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-86587030562980162272015-07-24T21:37:19.163-04:002015-07-24T21:37:19.163-04:00What makes Arkham's naming scheme not logical?...What makes Arkham's naming scheme not logical?<br /><br />Maybe Lightning was popular in Japan. They certainly got the impression she's one of the most popular characters in the series.Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-27778777681501844352015-07-24T18:55:30.516-04:002015-07-24T18:55:30.516-04:00Arkham's naming scheme ISN'T logical that&...Arkham's naming scheme ISN'T logical that's the point. At least Ace Attorney has phrases for its sub-titles.<br /><br />Yeah I don't know where Square judged that there were enough people that liked Lightning to make those, 'cause from wot I can see Lightning only got backlash.<br />Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-84743881217039447862015-07-24T08:58:41.142-04:002015-07-24T08:58:41.142-04:00Hmm, I see. I've still only played Wild Arms 1...Hmm, I see. I've still only played Wild Arms 1 and 3, but I'll change that eventually. I've often heard 2 is the best of the series.<br /><br />How is the Arkham naming scheme any more logical than, say, Ace Attorney's? Sure, fans sometimes call them AA2 and so on to distinguish, but if you go by their actual names, the first one is the only one you can guess (because it has no subtitle).<br /><br />To be fair, I have not yet played FFXIII-2 or Lightning Returns to judge the trilogy... I just look at FFXIII and wonder what in the world justified THAT game getting not only one direct sequel, but two!<br /><br />Although I haven't looked for any proof, I suspect the first Professor Layton trilogy was also organic. First a simple game with a cute and slightly weird story... Then a sequel with a weirder story and additional content.... Then a third game with a long, crazy story and even more content, which set the structure for the eventual prequel trilogy (which was clearly planned as a trilogy).Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-87910878776224139982015-07-23T21:11:20.229-04:002015-07-23T21:11:20.229-04:00I'm actually super-distressed that the user wh...I'm actually super-distressed that the user who uploaded Wild Arms 1, 2, 3, and 4 OST in four giant videos deleted them sometime on Tuesday.<br />But yeah according to total lack of discussion and review aggregation, WA4 and WA5 weren't well-received!<br /><br />Don't you worry, Arkham will get Fair & Balanced coverage on KoopaTV. :)<br />...Seriously though, it's a terrible naming scheme. Similarly I feel a great strain whenever I try to differentiate "Rayman Legends" and "Rayman Origins". Like, I don't want to say it wrong but the names are so similar and it doesn't help that the first of those chronologically is embedded into the second one.<br /><br />Well, Tokyo RPG Factory might have different sequel philosophies than its parent, right? Right? ...No? Well, FFXIII situation it is. That's really the fear OF the article.<br /><br />I thought of the Ace Attorney series while writing this article, but I purposefully didn't because I wanted someone to pick up on it.<br /><br />YOU FELL INTO MY TRAP MWAHAHA<br /><br />So thanks to Capcom Unity, we definitely know that Ace Attorney, despite being similar/literally reusing assets between its trilogy, was not planned from the start. Or else this sudden rush wouldn't exist.<br /><br />http://www.capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/09/19/a-battle-of-resolve-pt-1-mission-impossible<br /><br />Anyway, Law of Third Titles very clearly does apply to the Ace Attorney series, just organically. People recognised that Ace Attorney was an awesome franchise after the third one. I... believe I only got Ace Attorney 1 after Trials & Tribulations came out.<br /><br />The Law of Third Titles allows for any order of "good" "bad" "best" within a set of three games. If the first game is bad but it still continues, you know it's a sign that it was pre-planned and it'd be too expensive to just abandon those commitments. If the third game is bad, then according to the Law the franchise should be aborted. The second game is totally allowed to be bad because of the Law's "experimentation" clause, and Ace Attorney took advantage of that.<br /><br />You can think of examples for any of the permutations, including where the first game is the best (Mega Man X, X2, and X3... or even clearer, Yoshi's Island, YIDS, and YNI) or where the second game is the best and the third game ruins it (Donkey Kong Country).<br /><br />Now, this may be for a variety of reasons (totally different developers in Yoshi's Island's case), but one reason is that, if a franchise's future ISN'T planned properly (if you're going to plan out three games, make sure to introduce new features as you go along and don't get tempted to put everything cool in the first game), it'll become stale quickly. Capcom is famous for doing this to Mega Man, which is why the Mega Man X series ended up like it did.<br /><br />You should only continue a franchise if your developers don't feel like they're doomed to work on a franchise they've exhausted their creativity for. If your company's biz model isn't based on doing contract work, then what the hell are you doing just going through the motions? On paper, it makes sense to milk your cash cow franchise, but your exhaustion WILL show up in your game product and it'll just get worse over time. Which will demoralise your talent AND reduce sales.<br /><br /><br />...yeah.Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-36163847277772348262015-07-23T19:35:52.692-04:002015-07-23T19:35:52.692-04:00Well, there are certain ways you can have an excel...Well, there are certain ways you can have an excellent start, which is making sure your *first* game in the IP is awesome (like Splatoon) and not just mediocre or worse.<br /><br />If you're off to a shaky start, having two more games isn't very likely to help. By the time you got three you're probably running out of ideas.Ludwig Von Koopahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07286894104423855927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-44390531040390939352015-07-23T13:27:33.775-04:002015-07-23T13:27:33.775-04:00It is very difficult to build up a new IP. Codenam...It is very difficult to build up a new IP. Codename S.T.E.A.M is an excellent example of this. Harman Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585362592090974660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-27526876572104440312015-07-23T06:57:21.056-04:002015-07-23T06:57:21.056-04:00Professor Layton is another good example where the...Professor Layton is another good example where the series really hit its stride with the third game, which most people consider to be the best game in the series (and where its storytelling really started to become good). I feel the same way toward PL as I do toward AA, with the 2nd game being the worst and the 3rd being the best, but the majority disagrees with me on the second game.Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7803482805925136251.post-11786654620857922282015-07-23T06:55:35.866-04:002015-07-23T06:55:35.866-04:00Thumbs up for that Wild Arms shout-out. Are WA4 an...Thumbs up for that Wild Arms shout-out. Are WA4 and 5 really not good? I'd toss out the Spyro series as an example, although its downfall is in part because it kept changing hands.<br /><br />I disagree with your assessment of the Arkham games, though. Arkham Asylum has a very different feeling from Arkham City, which is why there's a core group of us who prefer Asylum to its sequels.<br /><br />As for planning 3 games from the start regardless of how the first is received.... don't turn this into another FFXIII situation, Square Enix...<br /><br />How would you saw the Law of Third Titles works with the Ace Attorney series, where the 2nd game is considered one of the worst, but the 3rd is usually ranked the best (or at least it WAS until Investigations 2; get a move-on on that localization, Capcom)?Samantha Lienhardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00050896759185927270noreply@blogger.com